XR: A Whole New World of Opportunity

Joining host Greg Oberst on this episode of The Whole Idea podcast are extended reality (XR) experts David Peniston and Ninyo Aganon from the Agency at DCG ONE. Learn how XR (including augmented reality and virtual reality) experiences are fostering an unprecedented level of brand engagement and transforming approaches to job training, education, and healthcare. Hear insight about the challenges of XR development along with the best practices for successful XR experiences with your customers.  

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Transcript

Air date: May 21, 2024 

Transcript: The Whole Idea Podcast 

Episode: XR: a Whole New World of Opportunity    

Greg: 

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Whole Idea Podcast. I'm your host, Greg Oberst, senior writer at The Agency at DCG one. Our topic for this episode, extended reality or XR, and we have two subject matter experts from the agency on the show today. David Peniston is our experienced technologist, and Ninyo Aganon is a digital art director at The Agency. David, let's kick it off with you and cover a few basics. What is Extended Reality—XR? 

David: 

So extended reality is sort of the umbrella term for three different technological experiences. You've got augmented reality, mixed reality, and virtual reality, and all three of those fall under that umbrella term of extended reality.  

Greg: 

David, if you would unpack the difference between AR and VR and MR for me.  

David: 

Sure. So, AR is augmented reality. That's where you've just got data layered on top of the real world. Virtual reality is a completely synthesized reality.  

Greg:  

It's all made up.  

David:  

It's all made up. Everything that you're seeing is not real, and you can interact with objects in the scene. You can pick 'em up, move 'em around, etc. It's much more like a video game. MR is sort of the, the middle point between those two things where it's layering data on top of the real world, but it's much more interactable. It's much more gamified, and it's more that middle point between completely new world and just putting data on top of the real world. 

Greg: 

What are some applications of XR that, that we might understand and some that we don't? 

David: 

Well, the most obvious applications of XR that everybody knows about is video games. You know, that's kind of where XR started, was in the video game world with virtual reality and the Oculus headsets. There's also, you know, your basic augmented reality apps that you, you see, like on Amazon, it'll offer to show you a product in your room. Like if you're looking at a couch or a table, it'll let you click on it and it'll augment it into your camera and you can see what that object will look like in your room. Those are probably the most basic, you know, forms of XR that most people are familiar with. 

Greg: 

We're starting to hear more and more about industry sectors incorporating XR experiences into training, healthcare, education… 

David: 

Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people are realizing that the immersive nature of these XR experiences can lead to people retaining the information a lot better. So especially with education, you know, having these extended reality applications that the kids can learn from, it's not only more exciting for them, but it helps them to retain that information.  

One specific example I can think of for education is this application called Lab, which is basically virtual labs for students to learn. Chemistry, biology, physics, it's it, you know, it's a 3D virtual environment and it allows them to do experiments that they might not otherwise be able to do at school, especially for like chemistry and physics. For physics, they could set up a really big experiment using, you know, all kinds of objects and how they interact with each other without the cost or weight of having to do that in real life involved. And same thing with chemistry. You know, they can do some, like some what would be dangerous experiments in real life and learn about how these chemical reactions work in a 3D environment, but without the danger of having to actually use those chemicals. 

Greg: 

And what about job training? 

David: 

And in job training, you know, another area where XR is very powerful is in the medical field. There are a handful of different virtual reality applications for, uh, surgeons to practice surgery in a risk-free environment without having to worry about accidentally hurting somebody or doing it wrong.  

Greg: 

I did see the other day where NASA is experimenting with VR to see how it might help astronauts in isolation environments trips to Mars. We recreate earth and home all around them and get over that homesickness perhaps even for just a few minutes.  

David:  

Yep.  

Greg: 

So let's talk about some of the things we're actually doing here at DCG one and some of the stuff you guys are involved with. David pre-visualization is something, and that's not an easy word for me to get out.  

David: 

It's not <laugh>, 

Greg: 

It's something you're involved pretty heavily with as it relates to EMR or XR. Tell us about that pre-visualization. 

David: 

Yeah, so pre-visualization or pre-vis as we like to call it… 

Greg: That's a lot easier… 

David: 

…it's much easier to say is basically exactly what it sounds like for a lot of our customers. If they have a really large-scale project that they're working on, especially with mural installations or big, large format print stuff, it can be very hard to visualize what that's going to look like when it's done. And a flat PDF proof or a static 2D Photoshop to mockup doesn't quite do it justice. So what pre-vis is, it’s a 3D model, the actual space that this project is going to be installed in, I then have the designer, I give the designers who are working on that project templates of the areas where we're going to be installing print. And then once they give me the art, I put it all into the 3D model and either do 3D renders of it and it's all to real world scale.  

Or I'll have the client come and view it in virtual reality. So it feels like they're standing in their actual space. They get a much better sense of the scale of the project. It helps them not only see exactly what it's going to look like in the end without having to do a bunch of test prints and spend a bunch of money upfront. It gives them the confidence that we are headed down the right path that we're, we're actualizing their vision the way that they envisioned it. 

Ninyo: 

What was interesting last time I was just sitting next to you and you brought some of the designers to visualize the space to help figure out is this the right layout? And so we had some of the designers to put on their, their VR goggles on, and they were able to see their designs in 3D space, VR space, but also in relationship to their height. And then that, that definitely helped them like visualize what they're doing and how their designs were being presented in front of them. 

David: 

The pre-vis is a huge tool, not only for the client, but also for our designers. Just like you were saying, if you're designing on a tiny little 20-inch screen, an eight-foot-tall wall, it's kind of hard to determine what size your font should be or what's, you know, if is this picture too big is, you know, is this thing that I've gotta touch too high up. And so by putting on the virtual reality headset, you can go and stand there. You know, it's like standing in front of the real thing when it's done, and you can say to yourself, oh no, this, you know, this headline font is way too big, or this body text is way too small. You can barely read it even when you're standing right in front of it. You can view it from up close, you can view it from across the room. So it, it helps the, the designers really understand their design and it helps them iterate on it a lot faster. 

Greg: 

The advantages of pre-vis sound almost transformational. It just completely pulls the guesswork out of the equation. 

David: 

Definitely. The other nice part about it, all of those assets that I use for the pre-vis are totally then usable for other XR projects. So if all of those assets that I modeled and created for the pre-vis are easily portable over to other XR experiences like that. 

Greg: 

Ninyo, what's your creative approach to getting your arms around an XR project? 

Ninyo: 

Yeah, there's a lot of different moving parts from audio to interaction design to like the visual design to the user experience, and then piecing them all together into this technical storyboard that holds all of our info, all the design thinking. So we came up with a framework that we like to think that it helps us navigate our design thinking. So it's three core principles, discovery, play, and utility. 

Greg: 

Let's take those one at a time. Let's start with discovery. 

Ninyo: 

People are naturally curious, so it's important to allow them to choose their own path. They're more likely to stay engaged with the experience so that way they're able to retain the information in a more efficient way 

Greg: 

And then play. 

Ninyo: 

Play. 

Greg: 

And who doesn't want to have fun?  

Ninyo: 

And who doesn't wanna have fun?  

David: 

Right. 

Ninyo: 

Okay. So AR brings a new set of experiences to take in content that's much more fun. We are able to bring in 3D models. We're able to bring in an atmosphere. We're able to also gamify this thing and add some characters to host some of this information. Or if we, if we wanted to, we can add in atmospheric sounds. We can bring in music. 

Greg: 

Yeah. There's a lot more to explore for a user. You want the customer to snoop around. 

Ninyo: 

There's a big level of curiosity that's happening when it comes to play. 

Greg: 

David, what then about utility? 

David: 

I sort of see utility having sort of like two halves to it. One part of utility is basically the reason for the XR project to begin with, but then at the same time, another part of utility is the UX of the, you know, the experience. So making it so that it's familiar based on, you know, what we know about other phone applications, you know, the back buttons usually in a similar place on all of those type of things. The, the way that you interact with that, that sort of design language has sort of been established over the years with applications. So there's the utility of making it easy for the end user, and then there's also the utility of what is the end user supposed to get out of this experience, and are we effectively getting that information out of it to the end user? 

David: 

You want it to be a fun experience because people aren't going to bother, you know, scanning the QR code or downloading the app for this experience. If it's not fun, if it's not, if there's not a, you know, a good reason to drive them to it, people aren't going to interact with it. So you wanna make it so that it's A) it's fun. And B) they're discovering information through that fund and then that information that they're discovering leads them to the whole reason that we got them there in the first place, which is to drive ticket sales or to, you know, X, Y, Z. 

Greg: 

You can see where strategy and UX would be important to the utility experience, but we want all that to be invisible to the user. Of course, we want to use those capabilities to make sure we build experiences that are accessible, intuitive, relevant.  

David: 

Right. 

Ninyo: 

So the utility part of it, the practicality of it is one of the reasons why we chose the QR code of scanning for the like, kind of like the least barrier of entry versus a user having to download the entire app. 

David: 

Right. There's, you know, no barrier to entry other than having a phone that can scan a QR code and people are going to be much more likely to interact with that. 

Greg: 

Ninyo, give me an example of when play or fun struck you in the design process. 

Ninyo: 

So back in one of our American Express AR projects, which was co-branded with Delta Airlines, we wanted to add a functionality to it where if you tilt your phone, the plane would also tilt along with your phone. So then adding kind of a tilt on the, the horizontal viewpoint would actually let the, the plane lean to the left or lean to the right. And adding in that play definitely is necessary. It is, it is the Easter egg of things. We try to add Easter eggs into all of our projects wherever possible. Um, even if it's minimal. And I think that also adds in fun for the designers too, to be able to have fun with their, their, uh, creative thinking. 

Greg: 

Yeah, I can imagine where there's a lot of experimentation going on during the creative development. 

Ninyo: 

Yeah. We don't know what the true capabilities are just yet. So that's why it allows us to be more experimental and to be curious about what we're capable of doing, both in the design thinking world and also within the dev space to see if it, this is even possible. And then when we find out that, oh, Nino, anything is possible, just, just, uh, let's just test it out. Whenever I do hear that, it makes me excited to work on these projects because we can be a little bit more dynamic in the way we, we try to achieve things and if the, the prototype allows for it, it just adds into the fun. 

Greg: 

David, what do you see as some of the biggest challenges that are inherent to working with XR? 

David: 

I guess the, the first big, you know, challenge is when it comes to the hardware, what hardware is this going to be experienced on? Um, making sure that it works properly on all different hardware can be tricky. There's also the challenges of data security, especially if it's going to be a standalone application instead of a, a web-based experience. Web-based experiences are a little bit nicer because you're essentially just viewing a website. There's a lot less opportunity for problems when it comes to data security. 

Greg: 

Yeah. Because the amount of data required to drive an XR experience is just massive. 

David: 

Yeah, it really is. There's a, there's a ton of data and there's a lot of data that gets collected by the device when you're doing an XR experience. Everything from the, you know, the accelerometers on your phone that, that talk about the positioning of the phone, and personal data and stuff like that. Some apps collect a lot of that stuff and, and some of them can store it. And so it, it allows for, you know, the possibility of data breaches or if, you know, if you're working with an XR experience where people are inputting their personal data, you know, you have to worry about a man in the middle attack where people can collect that information as it's being transmitted between you and the server and back, back and forth. So there are those considerations of making sure that whatever you're putting out there has a level of security so that, you know, to mitigate that happening. 

Greg: 

And to be clear, that is part of our duty and execution is to create these secure apps.  

David: 

Definitely.  

Greg: 

So we're not, we're thinking about security. 

David: 

Yes, we are. And you know, that's where our, our, our partner Air Cards really comes into play with a lot of the technical development of that type of security stuff. and making sure that things run really, really smoothly on the hardware that we're, that we're intending it to run on, using, uh, you know, some of the technology stacks that they, they work in. 

Greg: 

So David, how else do we find solutions for the many challenges that XR brings? 

David: 

Well, the biggest way is we sort of have a testing framework. Once we've gotten the basis of our experience down, you know, we'll go through the same sort of development process of a computer application where we've got an alpha stage and a beta stage, and we've got a bunch of people testing and look specifically looking for bugs, looking for problems when it comes to security. There's a lot of just sort of standard best practices to keep things secure that our partners at air cards help us implement. That's always constantly changing. So we're always having to learn new things about that and, and implement new ways to keep the application secure. But it mainly comes down to the, the testing, searching for bugs and just making sure that we find every little corner of the thing where something could go wrong and fix those errors before it gets shipped to the client. 

Greg: 

I can imagine in an XR experience, the testing process is a lot more extensive than say for a website, and we're pretty thorough about website testing along the way, but there are so many, as you say, nooks and crannies in an XR experience that it takes a lot of testing just to find those areas where the breakdowns might occur or where changes need to be made or where the experience could be better. That's all testing. 

David: 

Yep. Absolutely. And then, you know, one of the other challenges is just the fact that, you know, with a website, it just has to run on one of a couple different browsers, but with an XR experience, especially if it's an AR experience on a mobile device, it has to run on countless different devices. So, you know, making sure we're not just testing it on the newest iPhone, but also testing it on older iPhones, on iPads, on Android devices, on tablets, making sure that it works on as many of those platforms as we can. 

Greg: 

You know, in projects like this, creative, technical audio, visual security data technology, there's a lot of collaboration required in, uh, the execution of an XR project. So partnership becomes very important. Collaboration becomes very important. 

David: 

Definitely. Yeah, super important. And we're very happy to have Air Cards as a partner because they know what they're talking about when it comes to this XR stuff. 

Greg: 

So guys, let's circle back to the top here. Why should a brand extend and XR experience into their customer's journey? 

David: 

My answer is kind of, well, why not? It's sort of like, why not embrace this new technology and have it be this, this more immersive experience than what a website can be. And especially when you consider younger people grew up with video games, they're going to sort of relate to it. It's exciting, it's new, it's, you know, it's embracing new technology. It's looking at what's next. It's innovating and you know, we're always trying to be on the forefront of what's cool and what's new. 

Greg: 

It's not hard to understand that the actions required with an XR experience really prompt a unique level of engagement with a brand. 

Ninyo: 

You are actively moving your camera closer to a certain section of the scene. You are, you are tapping onto an object that is interactive to bring up some more information. And having that type of gestures, having that level of commitment to go in and out of the scenes, it's a lot more memorable in that way when you, when you put yourself out there. Because if you're just sitting down and you're scrolling and doing kind of like the, the regular gestures, it's not, things could just kind of like not be very memorable in comparison to something that you would experience in an AR environment. 

David: 

Not to mention all of the data that can be gathered on the end client side of how the users are interacting with it. There's a lot more data that can be collected and analyzed as to, you know, what your customers are interested in, how long they spent on, you know, this modal versus this modal. Yeah. It can just be a very valuable tool end day. 

Greg: 

Yeah. Even more end touch points to gather data. And we love our data. 

David: 

We sure do. 

Greg: 

David Nino, this has been fun. Thanks so much for sharing your subject matter expertise. 

David: 

Yeah, you're welcome, Greg. Thank you so much for having me. 

Ninyo: 

On. Yeah, thanks, man. Thank you. 

Greg: 

You can look for David's blog story about XR at blog.dcgone.com.  

My key takeaways. As such, an immersive and interactive experience, XR offers an opportunity for truly unique and powerful brand engagement. But the opportunities for XR go much further than just marketing with applications in just about any industry sector that can help people do better work. XR does come with challenges to be sure there's the massive convergence of technologies. Data XR requires a lot of it, which raises data security and privacy issues to be mindful of. So get ready for some heavy collaboration with experts who can bring a variety of skill sets. Oh and commit to a lot of testing and QA. 

If you have questions for David or Ninyo or would like to talk to either about applying XR to a campaign or a special project, write us at podcast@dcgone.com. Thanks very much for listening. Whole Idea podcast producers are Mandy DiCesare and Kelcie Brewer. I'm Greg Oberst. Watch this channel for our next podcast and more expertise, insight, and inspiration for whole Idea marketing.  

Take care.